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An Interview With Robert Sylwester
This interview with Robert Sylwester, Ph.D. first appeared in the newsletter MindShift Connection published by Zephyr Press.
Dee Dickinson: Bob, in recent years you have become one of the foremost synthesizers of brain research applied to education. What has led you to this particular field of study?
Robert Sylwester: I started out to be a biologist and received my undergraduate degree in that area. I was especially interested in ecology, and much more interested in the relationships between living systems than in naming and classifying them. After I graduated I taught in a one-room schoolhouse outside of Vancouver, Washington--taught all eight grades. I was fascinated in working with the kids as an ecological group and became fascinated with their individual differences and how they interacted. During that time, I was taking evening courses from Portland State, mostly to learn more about teaching science and math. I had planned to go on to get an M.A. in Biology, but got sidetracked by my growing interest in education.
DD: So you changed your direction at that point?
RS: Yes, I needed to know more than I was learning. I got into a lot of arguments with my professors, because I was always asking "Why?" and asking different kinds of questions than they were used to answering. I kept looking at education from a biological perspective. So I began working on an M.A. in Education. I went to summer school in Eugene, and was surprised to be invited to go into their doctoral program. My professor seemed to think my interests were important and could lead to some good research. The main focus of my studies was on classroom management, and I did most of my research by working with students directly.
DD: And what did that lead to?
RS: I found out some really important ecological things about classroom behavior. For example, misbehavior is really a form of survival--a way of gaining some kind of power or at least attention. After I received my Ph.D. I got a job at Concordia College in Nebraska, and one of the first things I did was turn my dissertation into a book called Common Sense and Classroom Relations. It went over really well, and I wrote a second book called The Elementary Teacher and Student Behavior. I was always trying to understand more about how biological relationships fit into schools.
DD: Wasn't that around the time that Behavior Modification was coming to the fore?
RS: Yes. That was in late sixties, and by then I was back at the University of Oregon teaching classroom management and science methods and curriculum.
Behavior Modification was indeed "rearing its ugly head." Recommending really powerful, coercive activities and giving out M and M's. I was going around doing "soft things" that really worked in the long term. I didn't know what to do about it, then a funny thing happened. I had gone to speak in Calgary, and while I was in the airport I met another incoming speaker, Hans Selye, one of the real giants in the cognitive sciences. He was studying how stress is the body's response to physically threatening challenge--and the body makes the same response to emotional problems. When I heard him speak, I realized that misbehavior is the body's manifestation of inner stress. When you give the kids M and M's you make them believe that they are not being coerced!?
DD: Did Selye's work have a long term effect on yours?
RS: Yes, I started to read everything I could about stress, and met with a group of six or seven faculty members to discuss what we were learning. Then, in the late 70's Roger Sperry's work on brain research and Robert Ornstein's work on the psychology of consciousness, along with a lot of other work in those areas, began receiving a lot of attention. One result was the learning styles research and new interest in brain research related to education.
DD: Back to your original interests?
RS: Yes, here was an opportunity to work on everything I had been interested in as a kid, and I have been focused on that ever since. Fortunately in my work as a Professor a the University of Oregon I have been able to do synthesis rather than empirical research, and have been able to do pretty much just what I would most like to do. In recent years I have been doing a lot of writing for Educational Leadership, and the editor Ron Brandt asked me to write a book for ASCD. A Celebration of Neurons came out last year with a distribution of 100,000 copies to all members of the association. It has been well received and has given me an opportunity to share what I have learned with a large number of educators. I've been asked to write a second book on the ecology of classroom management--that's really coming full circle.
DD: From your perspective, what new directions do you believe education will move in?
RS: I think there is no doubt we're eventually going to have a global brain theory based on new understandings of brain function, consciousness, memory, etc. I think this theory will help to explain the brain in biological terms. There will some d ay be a new researcher who will translate all of this into educational theory that will affect teaching and learning, and I think it will support such practices as integrative and cooperative learning, the arts in education, and the importance of the humanities.
DD: Meanwhile?
RS: In the next few years until we have greater understanding and a comprehensive theory, it's a good time for educators to get better acquainted with their own brains and to observe how they work. And to carefully observe their students. Let's be careful not to use jargon or clever names for all of this or to suggest more than we can deliver. John Dewey's last book Experience and Education bears rereading--it explains much about where the progressive movement went wrong. Let's just all try to create not the cheapest or most expedient programs, but ones that are the most intelligent and ecologically sound and in which everyone benefits.
DD: What's next for you?
RS: I've been really fortunate to have a career in which there is little difference between work and play. I have a great wife, our seven children are grown and successful, we have twelve wonderful grandchildren, and now that I'm semi-retired from teaching I am free to travel broadly as a speaker and consultant and to continue to write. I'm continuing to do what I most love to do!
This interview first appeared in MindShift Connection:,
a bulletin for successful learning and teaching. Vol. 1 No. 1,
published by Zephyr Press. For information about subscribing
and joining their network, call 520.322-5090 or write to:
Membership Department
P O Box 66006
Tucson, AZ 85728-6006
The books mentioned in this article can be ordered from Zephyr.
Ask them for a free catalog when you call or write.
Copyright © 1997 Dee Dickinson, all rights reserved.
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